August Scoutbook Update

Close

August Scoutbook Update

Published: Sep 5, 2018
Share this blog post with your friends!
View 164 Comments

SCOUTBOOK SUBSCRIPTIONS WILL BE FREE STARTING JANUARY 1, 2019

In an effort to drive program consistency and deeper engagement with our youth and leaders, Boy Scouts of America is pleased to announce that effective January 1, 2019, Scoutbook subscriptions will be free to all BSA units.

Scoutbook is an online unit management tool that ensures that you never miss a Scouting moment—from tracking advancements to milestone achievements along the Scouting adventure.

When units with a current Scoutbook account need to renew their subscription this fall, they will not pay any renewal fees effective September 1, 2018. 

When councils with Scoutbook accounts for their units need to renew these unit subscriptions this fall, they will not pay any renewal fees effective September 1, 2018.

Essentially, units (or councils paying for their units) can renew Scoutbook subscriptions in September, October, November, or December 2018 at no cost.

For units currently without a Scoutbook account, they can begin their free Scoutbook unit subscription on January 1, 2019.

Here are some Frequently Asked Questions about this announcement:

http://2zcwe21sj5ak1wpzl92omr3u.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Scoutbook-Subscriptions-will-be-free-starting-January-1-2019-12-PDF.pdf

 

  • Comments (164)
  • Anthony Wayne Area Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Andy Corzine
    Woo hoo!! Thank you scoutbook.com!!!
    Pending Approval
  • Capitol Area Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Albert Padilla
    This is great news, especially for units on a budget!
    Pending Approval
  • Pathway to Adventure Image
    Scoutmaster
    21 days ago
    Robert Rojas
    Amazing! We need to get the word out :)
    Pending Approval
  • Black Swamp Area Council Image
    21 days ago
    Corban J.
    Yes we so needed this celebrate!!! WOO HOOOOOO !!!!!!!!
    Pending Approval
  • Chief Seattle Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Ken Fischer
    Great to hear!
    Pending Approval
  • Circle Ten Council Image
    Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Nik Stanosheck
    Yay! Wish I hadn't just paid for a renewal and increase in number a few hours before this announcement. :-(
    Pending Approval
  • Glaciers Edge Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Brian Hackman
    Great news. I am hoping, in the effort of good customer service and trustworthiness, this does not lead to slow the progress of updates and maintenance of the site.
    Pending Approval
  • Sam Houston Area Council Image
    Committee Member
    21 days ago
    Noel Ramirez
    Great deal.
    Pending Approval
  • Twin Rivers Council Image
    21 days ago
    Tom Orcutt
    This is great news!!
    updated 21 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Tom, read the FAQs
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Nik,
    send and email to scoutbook.support@scouting.org with your details.
    Pending Approval
  • Mid-America Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    David Boswell
    That is really great news!!
    Pending Approval
  • Georgia-Carolina Image
    Webelos Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Dayna Rappold
    Our subscription expires on September 1st and I proactively renewed and PAID yesterday for 100 scouts. Can we get a refund since we technically did not expire until September 1st.
    Pending Approval
  • Atlanta Area Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Graeme Payne
    Excellent news!
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Dayna
    send and email to scoutbook.support@scouting.org with your details.
    Pending Approval
  • Pathway to Adventure Image
    21 days ago
    William Myers
    This will be helpful when they decide to fix such things as leaving requirements out of the Venturing Ranger Award. They are missing the SCUBA and the Shooting Sports requirements. The have known this for several years (see the error tracking notes). I can only assume that Venturing is not important enough to have things correct. I know several Venturers that are working on Ranger with these options, hopefully this will be fixed before they pronounce Scoutbook the only way to track and report advancement.
    Pending Approval
  • Potawatomi Area Council Image
    Committee Treasurer
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Andrea Kohl
    We just renewed last Friday. This is frustrating. Glad for the future... but frustrating. Packs typically run on a school year calendar.
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    send and email to scoutbook.support@scouting.org with your details.
    Pending Approval
  • Twin Rivers Council Image
    21 days ago
    Tom Orcutt
    Question about Scoutbook Lite then.. I see it is still going to be implemented. Seems to me like a waste of resources to keep developing that. I mean why would I use the LIte version if you can have the full version?
    Pending Approval
  • Montana Council Image
    Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Keith King
    Where is the LIKE button? This is awesome! Way to go BSA!
    Pending Approval
  • Heart of America Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Paul McDonald
    I almost renewed last night... glad I waited!
    Pending Approval
  • Greater St. Louis Area Council Image
    21 days ago
    Susan Pimentel
    I'm just learning of scoutbook and was trying to do a trial today. The system will not let me add a unit. I've submitted a punchcode request. Any ideas?
    Pending Approval
  • Greater Tampa Bay Area Council Image
    21 days ago
    Russell Fenimore
    This is great to hear, but we literally just renewed our Pack subscription last week so the no prorating/refund policy is simply a bad business practice. I understand you want to encourage new enrollees, but I don't think it is very professional to screw over your long term users. Why was there no advanced notice given before your suspense date? Definately shady.
    updated 21 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Trapper Trails Image
    Assistant Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Steven Hoyt
    Brian, I have the same concern about support, that when the subscription funding income stream dries up that Scoutbook dev resources may be viewed as non-critical the next time BSA needs to find some cash. I have my fingers crossed that this instead represents a renewed commitment from BSA and that additional resource will be forthcoming to allow them to address the product backlog more quickly. With trying to bring everyone on board at once the volume and pain of outstanding issues is going to rise very quickly and I hope the development team gets beefed up sufficiently to be able to keep the volume down to a grumble as opposed to a scream.
    updated 21 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    I don't think I would worry about that. The BSA is committed to Scoutbook and Scoutbook Lite. Without spilling the beans too much. Look for more enhancements this year.
    updated 21 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • San Diego Imperial Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bob Shafer
    So at this point, why would anyone now want to use Scoutbook lite?
    Pending Approval
  • Circle Ten Council Image
    21 days ago
    Eddie Rickey
    Our pack also just renewed, and now we can't get a refund?? Maybe I misunderstand but that seems very unfair
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Eddie
    see my notes above
    Pending Approval
  • Quapaw Area Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Jake Mueller
    We just renewed as well. It'd be nice if they would refund those who renewed the last 30 days.
    Pending Approval
  • Golden Empire Council Image
    21 days ago
    Daniel Bennett
    So I made a account last night, and trying today to do the free trial. I can't seem to find anyway to do it. Did they remove that option now that its going free in 4 months?
    Pending Approval
  • Mid-America Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    21 days ago
    Brian White
    Bill Nelson,
    You need to stop telling everyone to send an email to scoutbook.support@scouting.org. The answer of no refunds isn't changing. I got a loud and clear NO immediately.
    Pending Approval
  • Mt Diablo-Silverado Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    John Faber
    good move BSA
    Pending Approval
  • Pine Burr Area Council Image
    Committee Member
    21 days ago
    Dominic Michele
    Awesome! Can not wait, can save that money the pack places to use this and place it some where else
    Pending Approval
  • Catalina Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Garry Morris
    Same as Brian. No need to get anyone's hopes up Bill.

    I will say that that is extremely disappointing considering we have been loyal users for a couple of years now and our money has helped to make Scoutbook what it is today.
    updated 21 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Circle Ten Council Image
    Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Nik Stanosheck
    Yay! Unfortunately, I literally paid to add 40 scouts at 7am today and hours later everyone was upgraded to 1000 scouts for free and then I was told I would not get refunded even though they sold me what they knew they would be giving away. One of the volunteers said to write support and explain and they would understand. Nope, straight out told they would not refund me no matter what, even thought it was only hours.
    Pending Approval
  • Istrouma Area Council Image
    21 days ago
    Nick Marshall
    While this is nice, I wish this news had been put out much earlier. Our subscription was expiring yesterday and so we went ahead and renewed it. If we had waited 2 days, we would have gotten it for free. Not cool.
    Pending Approval
  • Baden-Powell Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Kelly Todd
    This is great! But you should just open it up free starting next month.
    Pending Approval
  • Theodore Roosevelt Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    21 days ago
    Steve Sylwester
    Smart move Scout org. Sorry for those who paid during the last hours or days before the change-over.
    Pending Approval
  • Washington Crossing Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Scott Fisher
    To be clear regarding the FAQ and what has occurred regarding the announcement. The FREE subscriptions start 1/1/2019. BSA did give 4 months advance notice AND also decided to waive any renewal fees for current loyal users for an additional 4 months over any other new Users. This is in advance of the actual date of the BSA funding unit subscriptions starting with the 1/1/2019 budget. Although those that renewed 4 months + 1 Month, 1 Week, 1 Day, 1 Minute, etc. before 1/1/2019 find that 4 additional months notice was shorter than what they would benefit from, a third of a year notice from the BSA was quite fair (especially in this day and age).

    Rest assured, the volunteers of the Scoutbook User Advisory Council have ALWAYS aggregated User input, questions, concerns, etc. and lobbied on behalf of the entire User base. This week is no different. However, we are doing so in light of the BSA already offering a PAID product that has become FREE FOR ALL already. There is no feasible way that the timing would ever suit everyone. (4 months advance notice with no renewal fees accepted could have been 3 months, 2 months, 1 month, or even zero months just as easily as it could have been more than 4 months in any way shape or form.)
    Pending Approval
  • Mobile Area Council-BSA Image
    Webelos Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Veronica Meola
    How was this 4 month notice given? I never saw it and purchased our renewal yesterday.
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Veronica,
    Notice announced today that on 1/1/2019 subscriptions and renewals will be free.
    Pending Approval
  • Central North Carolina Council Image
    21 days ago
    Alan Smith
    Please fix the logins!
    Pending Approval
  • Lincoln Heritage Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Don Hoover
    WAIT!?

    So WHY are you going to continue to waste our organizations money on further development of Scoutbook Lite?!! That makes no sense and does not strike me as being a good steward of the resources of the BSA.

    If the regular Scoutbook is going to be free, then DROP Scoutbook like because there is now zero reason to have it.
    Pending Approval
  • San Diego Imperial Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Duane Phillips
    Nothing is free in life. Soooo... how much is the annual scout registration fee increasing? Likely a BSA strategic move to assure a fixed resource across every scout and scouter. Wonder when this announcement will come for the recharter.
    updated 20 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Puerto Rico Council Image
    21 days ago
    Marisel Acosta
    Great!!
    Pending Approval
  • Washington Crossing Council Image
    Committee Advancement Coordinator
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Stephen Hornak
    Let's take a moment and review... internet advancement is going away
    Scoutbook lite/full use will be the database of record
    Some folks do not like scoutbook
    They need scoutbook lite
    I fail to understand the disconnect
    Pending Approval
  • Pathway to Adventure Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Krystal Steiner
    I hope they continue to improve Scoutbook! Like adding functions like being able to group people to one group for Camping committee or group for this specific activity so we can easily send an email to just that group. Checkout scouttrack it's user abilities were awesome.
    Pending Approval
  • Washington Crossing Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Scott Fisher
    Exactly Stephen. Scoutbook.com and Scoutbook Lite will continue improvements now with funding from other aspects of BSA I.T. that are being retired due to age. There will always be I.T. requirements. It is now better than ever for Scoutbook.com to be free because Scoutbook Lite is on a newer "code base" that Scoutbook.com is moving to over time naturally as well. SOME things that Units who are still importing data into Scoutbook Lite can use can be simultaneously offered to Scoutbook.com users and vice versa. Some Scoutbook.com development can be brought to new code without there being additional development or User load from Scoutbook Lite users because it would nt be needed for batch uploads from those choosing to use alternatives to Scoutbook.com (whatever those may be).

    Great choices but still more efficiency in development.
    Pending Approval
  • Pennsylvania Dutch Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Mike Carney
    I am one of those whose renewal was scheduled for August 22 and we renewed on the 26th. We are on a tight budget for our pack. I know that we will be using the services and technically the free period does not start until 1/1/19. Could Scoutbook refund the portion of our payment that would be in the free period either 9/1/18 or starting 1/1/19 (66%)? We don't ming paying what's fair, it just seems unfair that there is a free period and we have paid for what now is free.
    Pending Approval
  • Trapper Trails Image
    Assistant Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Steven Hoyt
    I was asked a Scoutbook Lite question from someone that I don't know the answer to. Once Scoutbook Lite replaces the legacy Internet Advancement does that mean that 3rd party products like ScoutTrack, PackMaster, etc. will no longer be able push advancement directly to BSA?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Steven,

    The BSA has announced that there will be a path for 3rd party tools to upload data to Scoutbook Lite. At this time we do not have any information on that data format.
    Pending Approval
  • Utah National Parks Image
    21 days ago
    Kyle Breinholt
    Most of us got "cheated" out of a portion of our 12 month subscription unless you were lucky enough to fall in the 4 month transition window. It appears Scoutbook did their best to come up with a roll-out that considered a typical October recharter/annual plan and tried to get ahead of that wave. I applaud the effort.

    The "renewed yesterday" folks aren't cheated out of the 12 months. They are getting 4 month of what they paid for then are getting transitioned like the rest of us. Thank you for catching as many units as you did with this 4 month transition window, BSA.
    Pending Approval
  • Washington Crossing Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    21 days ago
    Scott Fisher
    Yes. The BSA produced a 1/1/2019 budgeted support for Free Scoutbook for all (including increased support for those that paid for a portion of 2019). They then also waived any renewal charges being accepted for a full 4 months (1/3 of an additional year) prior to the announcement so no further payments had to be paid beyond the date of announcement. That is quite an aggressive rollout commitment.

    As you’ve noted, there is not ANY date/time of advance notice that would reach every unit but all of the Units that have paid will be getting nothing less than they paid for (which is an outstanding value already) and THEN the BSA Development is able to ramp up in support of the entire BSA now - not just those that paid in the $1/Scout/year in the past before 9/1/2018.
    Pending Approval
  • Marin Council Image
    Assistant Cubmaster
    20 days ago
    Alex Mauer
    AWESOME!!!!
    Pending Approval
  • Longhorn Council Image
    20 days ago
    Ahmed Qureshi
    Great news! Now integrate online registration into www.scoutbook.com to solve the next biggest headaches for units.
    updated 20 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Chief Seattle Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Thomas Graff
    I rarely ever post a comment, but ...
    I can't tell you what an asset ScoutBook has been to our Pack.
    Enough so that I have been paying for the Pack's subscription out of my own pocket and would be more than willing to continue doing so.
    I quit looking for perfection decades ago, and have learned to be delighted with the "exceedingly more than adequate".
    I'm sure the program will continue to be improved and expanded and BSA's commitment to the program only assures that.

    I first joined Scouts in 1962 when a pencil sharpener and a blank piece of paper were considered improvements.
    We had a hand crank telephone where our Den met and had to learn the ring signal on our party line.

    Yeah, I'm one of your biggest fans.
    Thanks for becoming available to everyone.



    Pending Approval
  • San Diego Imperial Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Bob Shafer
    Now for those of you complaining about having just renewed, let's get real. The cost of this program was a buck a kid and if you even used half the features offered it was well worth it. BSA had to make that cut at some point, but going forward it is now Free, so Yes maybe your out 40 or 50 dollars that the person who renews next month didn't have to pay, but so what! Next year you will get to pocket that extra 50 bucks and chances are the product will have even more features to make your life easier.
    Pending Approval
  • Crater Lake Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Justin Kohler
    How does this announcement affect the release of scoutbook lite?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Justin,

    From the announcement above:
    Q. How does this affect the development and roll-out of Scoutbook Lite?
    A. This Scoutbook announcement does not affect Scoutbook Lite, which will be rolled out later in 2018 and feature a new UX (user experience). Scoutbook Lite in its initial rollout will feature only advancement reporting.
    updated 20 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Simon Kenton Council Image
    20 days ago
    Bryan Bell
    We now have Scoutnet that National and the professionals use. We have my.scouting where we can track the volunteers and their training and our unit youth and adult membership. Now we have Scoutbook where we can track and scouts and parents can track progress. What is even better is that all these programs talk to each other so if the correct entries are made we will have a better recording and reporting system. This will make advancement so much easier and charter renewal becomes easier.
    Pending Approval
  • Prairielands Image
    Leader of 11-year old Scouts (LDS Troop)
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Bill Evans
    Thanks so much!
    Pending Approval
  • Circle Ten Council Image
    20 days ago
    David Freeborn
    What does Lite do that full blown Scout book doesn't? And vice versa? I can't even see lite.
    Pending Approval
  • National Capital Area Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Danielle Ballantine
    Is there any chance that National will once again raise Annual Recharter fees to cover the cost of “free” Scoutbook for all?
    Pending Approval
  • W D Boyce Image
    Cubmaster
    20 days ago
    Chris Barnes
    Really appreciate this move. I've found Scoutbook to be a significant help in running our Pack. It was a bargain at $1/Scout/year and now it's free! Like many other people posting I hope that it is adequately supported and development/improvements keep happening.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    20 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    David

    Scoutbook Lite is a replacement for Internet Advancement. It is only for recording final completions. Think of it as a subset of Scoutbook. The BSA is not requiring units to use Scoutbook so Scoutbook Lite will be the path report advancement for those units that do not use Scoutbook.

    At this time we do not have an estimated release date for Scoutbook Lite.
    Pending Approval
  • Black Swamp Area Council Image
    Committee Advancement Coordinator
    20 days ago
    Pamela Ganser
    Way to go. We just started using scoutbook and we love it. Thank you
    Pending Approval
  • Cornhusker Council Image
    Scoutmaster
    20 days ago
    James Buehler
    This is great news, but I'm pretty ticked off that I JUST renewed and won't be reimbursed for the cost. And I mean just renewed too. Like in August. I had to wait a bit even until I had money to pay, and it's not like the subscription was a ton of money, but it's the thought that counts! If I'd known this, I'd have waited until September to renew. I understand that it would be a huge deal to try to figure out who to pay back, and I know the scouts don't like to let any money be returned for any reason because they'll just apply it elsewhere, but that really stinks!
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    James,
    Most all of us renewed this year. That is the nature of announcements like this. It is about renewing in the future, not what happened in the past. This change applies only to any new Scoutbook subscriptions effective January 1, 2019 or later—and to any renewing Scoutbook subscriptions that would “normally” be paid between September 1, 2018 and December 31, 2018.

    For those of us who have been advocating for this for years, it is great news.
    updated 19 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • San Diego Imperial Council Image
    19 days ago
    Michael Elgo
    Fantastic! Thank you!
    Pending Approval
  • Chief Seattle Council Image
    19 days ago
    Keith Potter
    Bill, Ed, I'm hearing a rumor and need a point of clarification. Any unit not previously holding a subscription (Trial or otherwise) now has to wait until January to start a subscription with Scoutbook? As a commissioner whom has spent years advocating for Scoutbook am I now asking for the units whom have not yet moved to the system to wait until January, or Contact Member Care? I'm looking for a what do I tell them. Yes I get that leadership wanted to wait for "Top Hands" to put out the word. That's not my issue. I'm looking for what to I tell my troops and up and coming packs as this is the recruiting season and we have been trying to get 5 new units started. I want them to get started off on the right foot.
    Pending Approval
  • Transatlantic Council, BSA Image
    19 days ago
    Dana Mitchell
    Would be great to get a clarification to Keith's post about new units. For the last few days I've been trying to create a unit account on Scoutbook. Thus far, I'm only able to create a personal account for myself. Every time I try to add a scout or start a trial membership or even a full unit membership, I am taken to a page that says to contact Scoutbook Support. So far, they have not been forthcoming with a solution that would allow me to start an account for our unit. Our Council is no longer accepting advancement except through Scoutbook, so I'm hoping we will not have to wait until Jan 1 to get an account set up for our Troop.
    Pending Approval
  • Pushmataha Area Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Jeremy Hamilton
    We were waiting until after our recruitment night to take a our trial to a full subscription, so we know how many "seats" to purchase.
    If I read correctly, we now do not have the option to continue SB util later this year for the Lite version or until 1 for the free version?
    I hope this is not correct, we touted SB during our recruitment period and have ~ 65 scout families expecting to utilize the program.
    updated 19 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Chattahoochee Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Tim Radney
    So my subscription is about to run out, I log in and see messages about the change to Scoutbook, yet I can no longer access any part of my Troop on Scoutbook and also can't renew my subscription. What a great thing to happen on a three day weekend here in the US. We just have a Court of Honor this past week and I wanted to make the updates. Oh well.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Tim

    If your subscription did not expire prior to Sept 1 it should be extended automatically. If you explain what is happening on the forums we may be able to help you.
    Pending Approval
  • Washington Crossing Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Scott Fisher
    Keith and Dana, their are no NEW subscriptions until the Subscription Center reopens in 2019 when the 2019 bandwidth budget, etc. goes into effect for all Units in the BSA.

    Jeremy and Tim, if you had a subscription prior to Sept 1st (trial or full) it will continue with unlimited Scouts available (well 1000 actually) from this point forward.
    Pending Approval
  • Daniel Webster Council, BSA Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Michael Woods
    Is there really no way to create a new trial at this point? I was scheduled to do a Roundtable breakout session on Scoutbook next week (was scheduled two months ago) and it seems like it should be delayed if units will not be able to set it up until January.
    Pending Approval
  • Silicon Valley Monterey Bay Council Image
    Committee Member
    19 days ago
    Cathy White
    I am having the same problem as Tim. Also, unfortunate timing! I can’t access any information or send messages to families. When I attempt to do this, I get an error stating I don’t have an active subscription. Then, when I attempt to go to the renewal, I get “please email” support!
    Pending Approval
  • Longhorn Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    19 days ago
    Jeffrey Harford
    The Scouting Adventure moves on with God's Grace.
    Thanks for the Scoutbook program. Our unit appreciates everything you do to make our volunteer one hour a week easier. Woop!
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    18 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Tim and Cathy
    Subscriptions should automatically renew. Ignore the yellow flag warning if you get one. They should be removed soon. If you run into any issues where your subscriptions that is valid today does not automatically renew, send an email with your unit details and details of the issue to: scoutbook.support@scouting.org
    Pending Approval
  • Pushmataha Area Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    18 days ago
    Jeremy Hamilton
    @Scott Fisher, Thanks for the info.

    I see where we have 1000 seats available, but still have the expired subscription notice. I have an email in, maybe they will clear it up after the holidays.

    Edit 9-/4/18 :All is well after the maintenance was performed today. Thanks for the info
    updated 17 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    17 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Jeremy
    If your subscription expired after 8/1/18, Check now. You may have to log in and now for the expried notification to go away.
    Pending Approval
  • Silicon Valley Monterey Bay Council Image
    Committee Member
    17 days ago
    Cathy White
    Works for me now! Whew.
    Pending Approval
  • Mt Diablo-Silverado Council Image
    16 days ago
    Bill Wells
    2018-09-05: Scouting magazine announcement to all adult leaders

    "BSA will make Scoutbook free for everyone beginning Jan. 1, 2019", by Bryan Wendell, 31 Aug 2018,

    https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/08/31/bsa-announces-its-making-scoutbook-free-for-everyone-beginning-jan-1-2019/
    updated 16 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    The FAQ has been updated, see the 1st post in this blog thread.
    Pending Approval
  • Bay-Lakes Council Image
    Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Tim Olsen
    Thanks BSA, and thanks Bill Nelson for the added glimmer of hope (without spilling the beans)!
    Pending Approval
  • Norwela Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    16 days ago
    Jason Sterling
    We are currently in the trial period. Will we have to pay through the end of the year or will it be free as well?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Jason,

    No. See the FAQ linked above.
    Pending Approval
  • Southern Shores FSC (Michigan Crossroads Council) Image
    Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Peter Drouillard
    Great news!
    Pending Approval
  • Gulf Coast Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    John Mayfield
    While I'm happy it is going to be part of membership from now on I would really like to see the updates. None have been posted for two months. This is the flagship program but there are still a lot of holes to be fixed and no apparent progress. With thousands of new users coming on board in the next several months we need a fully functional system sooner rather than latter.
    Pending Approval
  • Evangeline Area Image
    Cubmaster
    16 days ago
    Anthony Diaz
    Great news! Except that I just renewed August 16th and added to our subscription. That's $80 we lose for something that is now free. How about a full or partial refund Scoutbook?!?!
    Pending Approval
  • Last Frontier Council Image
    Committee Treasurer
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Josh Fry
    Very cool! We have been very happy with Scoutbook and look forward to it growing and expanding even more!
    Pending Approval
  • California Inland Empire Council Image
    Den Leader
    16 days ago
    Brett Shearer
    Cool!!! now if only we could get our parents to actually log in... ;-)
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    John,

    There have been updates to Scoutbook just about every week for months. Watch the Change Log forum for announcements.
    Pending Approval
  • Heart of America Council Image
    16 days ago
    Jessica Hunter
    Okay, this is a great program, we have used it for years, However, we use a different program for Boy Scouts that allows us to also track tribal advancement. Will there be an option added to be able to do that to Scoutbook? And what is scoutbook lite? I have never heard of it
    Pending Approval
  • South Florida Council Image
    Assistant Webelos Den Leader
    16 days ago
    Diana Murphy
    Is there an accounting system in scoutbook? We use troop track and it allows us to show the monies in the kids accounts, use funds for paying for camping etc. Wondering what kind of system Scoutbook uses.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Jessica,

    I don't understand your comment on tribal advancement. Scoutbook only tracks BSA programs. Scoutbook Lite is the replacement for Internet Advancement. It is in development.

    Diana,
    There is a Payment Log in Scoutbook that can be used to track Scout accounts.
    Pending Approval
  • Pacific Harbors Council, BSA Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Jennifer Olinger
    Jessica, are you referring to the Tribe of Mic-O-Say? It is not a national program of the BSA.
    Pending Approval
  • Greater Tampa Bay Area Council Image
    16 days ago
    Deen Cheni
    Excellent!!
    Pending Approval
  • Chief Seattle Council Image
    16 days ago
    Jeff Ammons
    Forcing units to pay for a mandatory software program was a bad business decision. Glad someone saw the light.
    Pending Approval
  • Three Harbors Council Image
    Den Leader
    16 days ago
    Mark Thomson
    That good to hear. How do I make sure my program is current? How can I update
    Pending Approval
  • Mt Diablo-Silverado Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Ron Fedele
    Jeff was never and is not now mandatory. Scoutbook Lite which has not been released yet was always free and is the replacement for internet advancement
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    16 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Mark, Scoutbook is a web site, not a program. There are not updates to be made on your system.
    Pending Approval
  • Texas Trails Council Image
    Committee Advancement Coordinator
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Teresa Beard
    Awesome news! Thank you Scoutbook people :)
    Pending Approval
  • Baltimore Area Council Image
    Assistant Webelos Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Joseph Kane III
    What if we just renewed it in March to make sure that we were good to do things during the summer?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Joseph,
    See the FAQ linked at the top of this blog.
    Pending Approval
  • Green Mountain Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Stew Stryker
    I think this is a great idea and Scoutbook has become pretty good.

    My only concern is that the development efforts for Scoutbook continue at the current level, if not increased. It seems like new functionality takes a LONG time to release. I'm a professional programmer so know best-practices, which includes frequent incremental releases to get new functionality into users' hands. That doesn't seem to have been the case with Scoutbook.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Stew,

    There have been updates to Scoutbook just about every week for the past few months. Follow the Change Log forums for announcements.
    Pending Approval
  • Greater St. Louis Area Council Image
    15 days ago
    Max Maxwell
    This is very good news. I am glad I subscribed last year and am familiar with it. There is definitely a learning curve. Interested to see how it is accepted and implemented with non-users.
    Pending Approval
  • Baltimore Area Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Adam Spence
    Bummer. I would prefer to continue paying to be able to pay extra developer staff for aggressive development of improvements.
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Verla May
    I would love some sort of help/response/ when I have Scoutbook questions. I have sent email in the past, no reply yet.
    Pending Approval
  • Pacific Harbors Council, BSA Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Jennifer Olinger
    Verla, we can help a lot of users with their questions in the Scoutbook forums. Most questions are answered in 30 minutes or less.
    Pending Approval
  • Greater Los Angeles Area Image
    Assistant Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Big Chris Nolan
    Awesome.
    Pending Approval
  • Greater Tampa Bay Area Council Image
    15 days ago
    Austin D.
    Yessss
    Pending Approval
  • Gamehaven Image
    15 days ago
    Jim Fitzsimmons
    Does this mean that the My Calendar feature is not going to be "(Beta)" anymore?
    Pending Approval
  • San Diego Imperial Council Image
    15 days ago
    Rupesh Gupta
    Nice! Hope to see lots of improvements in the tool. Lots of feedback to come back from a larger user base.
    Pending Approval
  • Glaciers Edge Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    15 days ago
    Kris Koskelin
    Like Stew, I'm a developer, and I've been using SB for quite a while now. I would even be willing to pitch in on a bug board, contributing patches, etc. Perhaps there could be some polls conducted to determine top picks for new features, enhancements, bug fixes, UX changes? (I'd LOVE to be able to smoothly bulk-add calendar events)
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    15 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Kris,

    The volunteer written and supported Feature Assistant Extension for Scoutbook for Chrome and Firefox can import a csv file to the calendar and add recurring events. Search the Chrome or Firefox extension stores (or the Scoutbook forums for links).

    There are plans for a major calendar rewrite and eventually Scoutbook will adopt the UX from Scoutbook Lite.

    The BSA does not use volunteers for Scoutbook development.
    Pending Approval
  • Sam Houston Area Council Image
    14 days ago
    David Pfeffer
    Cannot get a pack setup and no one responds to emails. Any other way to get help?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    14 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    David,

    Ask your questions in the forums. You will typically get an answer within 30 minutes.
    Pending Approval
  • Chief Seattle Council Image
    14 days ago
    Jennifer Pruitt
    Yay!!!
    Pending Approval
  • Baden-Powell Council Image
    Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    14 days ago
    Keith Werkman
    Great.. next we need a PopcornBook.com for helping raise funds for units and BSA.. a popcorn kernel tool (currently developing for our local pack, but others out there already <since 2007>! Just need to get one and provide as well to have repeatable kernel process for show&sells, den sales, and individual inventory sales, as well as the usual on line and take orders).
    Pending Approval
  • Atlanta Area Council Image
    14 days ago
    Jack P.
    Yes thanks, Scoutbook.com!!!!
    Pending Approval
  • Patriots Path Council Image
    14 days ago
    Michael Cobucci
    OK but when will the JTE tracking go live???
    Pending Approval
  • Washington Crossing Council Image
    Committee Advancement Coordinator
    Trained Strip
    14 days ago
    Stephen Hornak
    Keith - not all councils use the same vendor, product line or commission structure for fundraising. The system would need to gather all of those variables.
    Michael - not all councils use the same metrics...most do but some do not. Neither are all of the data points captured in scoutbook.
    Pending Approval
  • Southern Sierra Council Image
    13 days ago
    Brian Longbottom
    How long do you normally have to wait for the “help desk” to respond? Trying to setup an account for my Pack, have submitted all of the requested info a week ago, received a request number SSD-29845 back, but nothing since. Is a week plus normal? Is there a phone number to call? Thanks

    Ok, just re-read the FAQs and this can’t be right. If my Pack doesn’t have an active account, we can’t have one until 1/1/19...is that right? Not even a trial?
    updated 13 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Buffalo Trace Image
    Den Leader
    13 days ago
    Christina Bowler
    Yeah!!!! We use this all the time. It is amazing, I am so glad it will be more available to everyone without the cost.
    Pending Approval
  • Orange County Council Image
    13 days ago
    Dave Klein
    So we've been planning to do the free trial for our Troop to evaluate. We put it off for a few weeks to allow out Advancement Chair to process all of the summer camp achievements without having to first learn a new tool. Now it appears that we can't even set up the trial account to evaluate until January.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    13 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Brian, that is what the BSA has said. We have not been given any more information.
    Pending Approval
  • Southern Sierra Council Image
    12 days ago
    Brian Longbottom
    Thank you Ed! I appreciate the response. Guess we’ll hang loose for the New Year...
    Pending Approval
  • Greater St. Louis Area Council Image
    Webelos Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    12 days ago
    Peter Shoemaker
    This is Wonderful News. Thank you BSA and Scoutbook Team
    updated 12 days ago
    Pending Approval
  • Hoosier Trails Council #145 Image
    12 days ago
    Shannon Winkle
    Great news - I wanted to comment on others stating they have not had a response on tickets and emails sent for ScoutBook issues. I have been pleasantly surprised at how fast issues have been resolved for me in ScoutBook. I have had immediate email responses stating there is a ticket received. My issues have all been resolved by the next day at the latest. I work in the IT industry and wanted to give credit where it is due. I've been very impressed with the speed and effectiveness of issue resolution with ScoutBook.
    Pending Approval
  • Atlanta Area Council Image
    12 days ago
    Estherlena Saunders
    Well, I'm new at this, so I'll bring my questions this evening.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    11 days ago
    Walter Mensen
    So, is this a confirmed thing then that if a unit doesn’t have an active Scoutbook subscription, that they cannot initiate one until January? Our Pack’s subscription renewed, but I know a few Troops in the area were not using it yet. It seems self defeating to not allow units to use the site when we are all starting a new school year.
    Pending Approval
  • Cascade Pacific Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    11 days ago
    Tina Moore
    Thank you BSA & scoutbook for giving this to us for free!!! So glad the decision makers at the BSA are adding this in to membership!
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    11 days ago
    Paul Root
    Yeah, paid subscription on 8/20.
    Pending Approval
  • South Texas Council Image
    11 days ago
    George Smith
    I created an account last night, got confirmation email today to activate account. Can not get anywhere. Was looking to purchase til end of year. Asked my council and got no answer.
    Pending Approval
  • Tuscarora Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    11 days ago
    Rafael Batalla
    I been trying to set up my pack and since they removed the "subscriptions" options, how can we set up new pack? Do we have to wait until January? Submitted a ticket at support email, but have not hear or received any kind of response for a week. Any had any luck contacting the "support desk"?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    11 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Rafael,

    At this time, the BSA is not allowing any new units to be setup in Scoutbook.
    Pending Approval
  • Hudson Valley Council Image
    11 days ago
    Amy Dick
    Hi,
    Our Council is one of the ones which purchased ScoutBook subscriptions for all units beginning in 2017. We've been working to get more units on ScoutBook with those council codes. Are we not able to use those now if the unit didn't get the activation done before 9/1?
    Thanks
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Webelos Den Leader
    Trained Strip
    11 days ago
    Jim Winslow
    Great news. Be great to see this tool used and developed more. Thanks!
    Pending Approval
  • California Inland Empire Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    10 days ago
    Travis Turner
    What about units that renewed last month?
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    10 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Amy
    Your council should go ahead and write to scoutbook.support@scouting.org
    The BSA is working on a way to assist councils in your situation.
    Pending Approval
  • Trapper Trails Image
    Committee Chairman
    10 days ago
    Mike Dalton
    so how do you use this thing. Yes. I am new to blog you say. What does it compliment of current databases, email, text. How are communications improved? I just got set up by our sponsor executive. Is everyone in the beginning of the learning curve? Will other systems be replaced? Simplify. This is a football as a great coach once said to his team. I am old enough to remember it.
    Pending Approval
  • Grand Canyon Council Image
    Committee Member
    Trained Strip
    10 days ago
    Bill Nelson
    Mike,
    We have user guides and videos here: http://bit.ly/scoutbook
    Pending Approval
  • Patriots Path Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    10 days ago
    Vincent Esterly
    So how do I make my account active for our troop, as our subscription ran out..
    Pending Approval
  • Cascade Pacific Council Image
    10 days ago
    George Scott
    Great. Thanks Ben!
    Pending Approval
  • Hudson Valley Council Image
    9 days ago
    Amy Dick
    Thanks, Bill, I will do that.
    Pending Approval
  • Patriots' Path Council Image
    Assistant Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    9 days ago
    Ricardo Vitorino
    That’s awesome! Our pack just loves this program. We use it for everything. Thanks
    Pending Approval
  • Prairielands Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    8 days ago
    Anthony Frasca
    What about those that already renewed for a whole year will they get a partial refund?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    8 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Anthony,

    See the FAQ linked at the top of this blog.
    Pending Approval
  • Greater St. Louis Area Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    5 days ago
    Allen Roberts
    This is great news. Too bad I just renewed our subsciption last month for a year...
    Pending Approval
  • Connecticut Yankee Council BSA Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    5 days ago
    Dave Carr
    9/17/18(06516) In my Community, and probably yours, we have a lower than ideal participation in Scouting. It seems Scouting is challenged by after-school sports, busy parents and mobile video entertainment of many varieties, some less than ideal. As kids and parents spend more in their screens they miss other activities. I believe Scouting offers a better experiential program for youth and families than any in the USA for the foundation of values and service. Scouting also offers parents and families a platform from which to embed the Scout Law, Motto, Oath and Achievement in the identity of the child. You who are reading this on a BSA platform already know this, so I propose our job, to ensure Scouting exists forever, is to promote Scouting better by making other things second. As parents and children 11-16 is a relatively small time window. My Troop 802 has website (troop802westhavenct.com) and Facebook pages we send out in our community, yet the response remains low. FIVE PROPOSALS---I would like a conversation to develop about what your troop is doing, or is being challenged with. On a national level Councils need to address this with action, as selling popcorn does not do enough to promote the Values and Life Long Benefits of Scouting. Maybe more (1) press releases, (2) Join Scouting Homework Help Club. (3) Join Second Saturday National Scouting Hike Day. (T-@daaavecarr) when all troops in the USA have a scheduled hike. (4) environmental awareness action, and (5) Helping the Hungry in the Community. This is message an idea-seed I am planting in the BSA cybergarden as I sit here imagining the future in which all scouts will live. Sincerely, David Carr ASM802
    Pending Approval
  • Glaciers Edge Council Image
    Committee Chairman
    4 days ago
    Matt Ebersole
    I received this response from Scoutbook: "Thank you for contacting the Boy Scouts of America. We are in the process of making improvements to Scoutbook. Until we have completed these changes, both new accounts and Family/Unit trial subscriptions are not available. Presently, we do not have an estimated time to expect the updated release. If you need to contact us regarding this ticket, you can reply to this email. Our normal business hours are Monday – Friday, 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Central time. Thank you for your support of Boy Scouts of America. Member Care Contact Center"
    and later: "Thank you for contacting Scoutbook! I’m happy to assist you. There will be an announcement made once trials and sign up become available. We do apologize for the inconvenience. If you have any additional questions you may find an answer in our FAQ: bit.ly/scoutbook"

    Pending Approval
  • Gamehaven Image
    Den Leader
    4 days ago
    Michael Langas
    So exactly how do we start this year then? We haven't used scoutbook yet. Continuing to pursue the 3rd party solution we started looking at last year now makes no sense at all. We just limp along and make due?
    Pending Approval
  • Pacific Harbors Council, BSA Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    4 days ago
    Jennifer Olinger
    Matt and Michael, from the Blog post (at the top of this page):

    "For units currently without a Scoutbook account, they can begin their free Scoutbook unit subscription on January 1, 2019."

    New subscriptions are currently on hold until they open them back up again.
    Pending Approval
  • Gamehaven Image
    Den Leader
    3 days ago
    Michael Langas
    Jennifer, Matt and I understand the conditions. There is no need to restate them.

    Since we can't even subscribe to scoutbook if we wanted to until Jan 2019, then we are left without a management solution until then. The question is simply, why didn't the BSA make it freely available starting with the new academic year. It seems like a fairly obvious oversight.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    3 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Michael,

    The BSA has not explained their decision or why Jan 1 is the effective date. The only thing I can think of is they needed time to prepare for a large influx of new users and possibly wait until the start of the BSA's fiscal year when there may be additional money in the IT budget to pay for additional capacity.
    Pending Approval
  • Greater Niagara Frontier Council Image
    Cubmaster
    Trained Strip
    3 days ago
    James Jowsey
    So a practical question... Should I encourage my families to sign up for the free individual accounts now or after Jan 1st?
    Pending Approval
  • Pacific Harbors Council, BSA Image
    Committee Chairman
    Trained Strip
    3 days ago
    Jennifer Olinger
    Michael, you can use Internet Advancement in the interim. It is a free tool for units, although it only tracks completed and approved advancements / awards. Talk to your local council about how to get set up.
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    3 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    James,

    If you already have a Scoutbook subscription for your unit, you can add your families today by going to the Scout pages and click Add Parents. If you do not have a current subscription, families will not be able to create new accounts until the BSA re-enables the sign up link on the Scoutbook landing page.
    Pending Approval
  • Laurel Highlands Council Image
    2 days ago
    Robert Buchanan
    Is there any reimbursement for a Pack (ours) that paid the $40 in August 2018 for the first time only to find out the service is now free?
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    2 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Robert,

    See the FAQ (link at the bottom of the blog post)
    Pending Approval
  • Monmouth Council, BSA Image
    2 days ago
    Christopher Croft
    I have an invitation code from my council for my pack. Is there a link to enter it? Thanks
    Pending Approval
  • Northern Star Council Image
    Assistant Scoutmaster
    Trained Strip
    2 days ago
    Ed D'Avignon
    Christopher,

    Not yet. The developers are still working on the update to accept the codes.
    Pending Approval
  • profile photo
    just now
    Your Name

Delete Comment?

Are you sure you want to delete your comment?

This action cannot be undone.